We need something that non-technical people can use to own bitcoin without risk. The ramifications of stories like this will continue to hamper adoption until we do. reddit.com/r/BitcoinBeginners/

The whole concept of connecting to a random (Electrum) server is just wrong. Even more wrong that that server is apparently able to send a 'random' message to a user.

@FreePietje Yeah, Electrum is definitely not the ideal software. Putting coins on an exchange is not ideal either. Forcing people to buy a hardware wallet is not ideal either. There should be some middle ground that is reasonably safe there.

@kallewoof @FreePietje
To be fair, I don't think 'connecting to a random server' is the issue, it is 'allowing a random server to serve textual messages to the user' that allows this phishing attack to work (and wow! does it work - that address has received over 35 BTC).

But otherwise, while usability is getting better over the years, the finality and gravity of making mistakes when using BTC will never disappear. I think education is very important, but its easy to become overbearing as well.

@htimsxela @FreePietje The electrum bug is just one example of why this is not a good idea to begin with. Yes we need to educate people, but we also need a safe point of entry that doesn't result in people losing their life savings due to easy to make mistakes..

@kallewoof @htimsxela
I interpreted your OP too narrowly. I focused on Electrum (which I actually think is one of the better products/wallets (but use it with EPS)) instead of seeing it as yet another example of the broader problem.

I fully agree with that broader issue.

We are all so reliant on computers, yet 95+% have no idea how insecure they actually are, let alone how to secure them.
Bitcoin adds a number of issues on top of it, most importantly that every error tends to be catastrophic.

@FreePietje @htimsxela Yeah, I don't have particular beef with Electrum, but more with the lack of safe and easy options in general.


@kallewoof @FreePietje
In many cases I think mobile wallets are a reasonable mix of easy UX and security (as long as your phone isn’t rooted, etc). For larger amounts, or power users, they aren’t great, but at least they’re easy enough to use for newbies. Some of them allow you to connect to your own node, so at least you have some privacy there.

Unfortunately, no mobile wallet is fully featured, at least on iOS. UTXO selection, manual fee selection, would be nice.

@htimsxela @FreePietje Agreed. It feels like bitcoin people go out of their way to avoid iOS for some reason..

@kallewoof @htimsxela
I know that Apple does great things wrt security and privacy (and commend them for it).

However, I have a principle problem with a walled garden and therefor would never use/buy it myself.
My guess is that many FOSS enthusiast feel the same way.

@FreePietje @kallewoof @htimsxela as a iPhone user, I agree and I'm considering switching for lineage OS

@FreePietje @kallewoof @htimsxela Talking about that, I'm looking for a 2nd hand phone to test lineage OS, I found a reconditioned Google Pixel for 180€. That might be stupid, but I'm a bit reluctant to buy a Google phone, does anyone has some experience with it, especially for running Lineage ?

@FreePietje @kallewoof @htimsxela Yup, precisely I saw the Pixel on the list, my question was more about the hardware, I never owned a Google phone, let alone knew anyone that owned one, and it looks a bit overprice.
The phone I spot is 180€ for an allegedly original price of more than 800€, despite the seller admitting it is not in perfect condition that looks too good to be true

@Sosthene @kallewoof @htimsxela
Ah, ok. Excellent.

I have no experience with Google hardware myself, so I can't help you with that. @DanielMicay on :birdsite: seem to like it (and he supports it with his project(s))
twitter.com/search?q=from%3ADa may give you some more info, but probably not related to LineageOS.

'not in perfect condition' can mean a lot of things and as it's now ~2.5 years old, such a drop in price may not be unreasonable.

@kallewoof @htimsxela @FreePietje in the past the apple app store wasn't friendly to Bitcoin wallets, so that set back wallet development there. Also in general app development is hard so makes sense sometimes to focus on the larger Android installed base.. I'm hopeful tech like will make SPV type mobile wallets better too, it's not just for

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