BitcoinTalk is accepting Grin donations (this is the first time they've accepted something that isn't BTC, which seems notable).

I haven't followed along too closely, but the Grin tech does seem interesting. Bootstrapping a currency is no small feat, in any case.

So, BitcoinHackers, give me your Grin opinions!

@htimsxela anything useful that is pioneered by grin will make its way to bitcoin, not really that interested at all to be honest

@htimsxela it looks like interesting project for coders and researchers, but tbh I think it should be a sidechain of btc, and I'm surprised by bitcointalk accepting it


VC money. Everyone is 'interested in the tech' but I'd love to hear them explain even the the most basic aspect of it (the kernel/excess value). Well, perhaps too cynical.
Payments being interactive (at least quasi-) is far from ideal, and making the aggregation of txs work without privacy fails is afaik a big deal (not up to date on this).
MW is a really clever idea; just a small extra step over CT; but it always seemed a little impractical. Scaling win is pretty amazing though.

@waxwing @htimsxela I think it would be a great addition to Bitcoin itself. The aggregation can hopefully make up for the extra range-proof data so that you get *all* the benefits: both the privacy and a lower fee.

@stevenroose @htimsxela

Even adding CT is a huge can of worms though, let alone MW (don't think anyone has an idea for doing that, if not a sidechain, which is of course not really "adding to BTC" really).

Fun to think about ways to add CT without giving in to the computational binding invisible inflation threat; like opt-in CT txs that are walled off from non-blinded with a ZKP of global balance that's somehow perfectly binding or something ...

@waxwing @htimsxela Did you read Mark Friedenbach's Forward Blocks paper? It makes room for MW in Bitcoin. It's not elegant. But it's possible :D

@stevenroose @htimsxela

No, I didn't, thanks for the tip :) Was that at Scaling in Japan? I just realised I still haven't got round to even looking at those talks.

@waxwing @htimsxela Yeah was in Japan. The talk is very confusing. Took me a day and a half to get through the paper, though. But it's pretty cool. It's basically infinite theoretical block space, option for rescheduling the miner reward, all kinds of wicked features in extension block-like strucure etc. Definitely worth the read!

@stevenroose @waxwing
The forward-blocks idea is intellectually interesting, but practically I think it would be incredibly difficult to gain the network-wide consensus needed to soft-fork a change like that into Bitcoin.

Unless Grin was actually poised to topple BTC's position, I struggle to believe that consensus would achieved to activate such a change. Perhaps as an incremental series of changes, but all at once... there are a lot of unknowns. The inflation bug risk is very potent.

@htimsxela @waxwing
Of course. It's also not something for tomorrow. The good thing with this forward blocks idea is that all extension block chains are opt-in. This also means that the silent inflation risk is opt-in.
And yeah, probably more likely to see incremental changes. But Confidential Transactions will be a pretty big change either way.

@htimsxela I'm still of the opinion that any worthwhile feature will be incorporated into Bitcoin.

So they can do what they want, I don't mind them being the "testnet". 😎

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